Episode Transcript
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Welcome to Examining, a technology focused podcast that dives deep.
I'm Eric Christiansen.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: And I'm Chris Hans.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: And welcome to another episode of the Examining podcast.
Good. Good afternoon, Chris. How are you today?
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Good, how are you?
[00:00:29] Speaker A: I'm well. We're back after a brief hiatus over the summer. We often take a break, but we're back and just in time for kind of back to school and some of the Apple announcements. So I think in this shorter episode, we were just going to kind of COVID what, what was discussed in Apple's latest hardware announcement, how that's useful for, you know, our primary audience, which is often like educators, people in startups, productivity nerds, things like that.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: I mean, what was your overall impression, I should ask?
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, I, I would say again, when you have a new CEO, and this is probably one of the biggest announcements focused on hardware, but it was kind of already expected.
But I, I sometimes I look at it.
Is it innovation? Is it imitation? Is it something in between?
You know, Apple's done something that it hasn't done before, which is having an iPhone that folds. But yeah, I don't know if $2,000 for a phone us, here, for us in Canada is 3,000 starting price.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I saw that. Well, that's probably a good place to start then. So we had a bunch of announcements. There was a folding phone, there was a new pro phone, no standard phone. There was a new watch, new watches and AirPods I think was everything. So we can start with the phone.
So this has been rumored for a long time. It's very expensive. It's called the iPhone duo. And so this is Apple's answer to kind of something that I think Samsung deserves the most credit for in terms of pioneering foldable phones and foldable displays that, what is it called, the Z fold or something like that. Now there's a couple different ones. There's like phone, there's phones that fold horizontally into little cubes, and then there's ones that kind of fold out wide to be more like a, you know, like a small tablet size.
So the duo is, is that. And so, I mean, I have some thoughts in terms of the design.
I'll highlight a couple of the design features, like the basics in case people haven't seen this. So it's called iPhone Duo. It's kind of a more square display.
So there's a main display on the front like a regular phone, that's 7.6 inches. I think it's an OLED display. And then when you fold it out it basically. Oh no, 7.6 is the, is the big display when you fold it out and then there's a 5.4 inch kind of regular phone display on the exterior. So you can, you're like holding it like a phone and then you unfold it and then it becomes this, a 7.6-inch display. And of course they've reworked some of the software for that.
So what, so there's a bunch of things we can talk about in terms of innovations, but you know, we can go through some of the tech specs. But what was your overall impression of this as a foldable?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: I mean, it looks pretty cool. I, I think the, the form factor, I mean people were describing is like passport size. And then it opens up to like almost like an iPad mini.
You know, I, I, I think the, what Apple is working on in terms of its artificial intelligence and the iOS, I think this, this demo really gives you an idea of where Apple is heading.
I mean, it was kind of cool to have, when you open up the phone, let's say if you are sending somebody an image, you can have on one side your messages and then on the other side you can go and drag that image over from your camera roll and so kind of cool interaction for sure. And I mean, I would imagine they've spent a lot of time trying to make the fold useful rather than just treating it as a gimmick. From what I've read about it, the fold isn't as a, they've spent a lot of time to minimize and, you know, the actual look of the fold. So it is designed apparently better than what has come before it. But in many ways, if you compare the specs to the Samsung one, I mean, and it's always the case the iPhone isn't at the same level like when you're looking at the, the camera and other things.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought what was interesting, one of the things that I found interesting with these folding devices, I haven't spent a lot of time with the, the Samsung devices. I, I've played with them a bit in kind of storefront situations.
They're very good compared to the early iterations. But there's a few kind of things that I've noticed.
That I think Apple did a kind of like, I think this is a minor update, a minor improvement over what Samsung has, let me say. I don't think this is dramatic and it's of course running a different platform. But what I found most interesting about these other devices is the transition. So you have this regular phone and then you Turn it around, you open it up and you have this big, big screen experience and it kind of replaces your tablet. Right. I really thought it was interesting that when you're so like if you're in the iPhone duo and it's opened as you close the display, there's actually like a fade in animation to where it transitions what was on that bigger display into a smaller version of the other display. So I, I'm, you know, from an interaction design perspective, that's one of the things I've always struggled with with these multi display, multi dimensional devices. How do you maintain kind of the, the context going from one to another without kind of, you know, like you, you wouldn't want it to be like the same experience as having a laptop screen connected to and then you connect it to an external desktop and it's like a whole new world. Right. And then you would have to remember what you had open in each iteration. And so I like that they've tried to keep this continuity. It's almost kind of like a, like if you're resizing a browser, it's just stretching the content and kind of transferring it to a different context rather than having kind of two different paradigms that you're operating in and have to remember. Does that make sense?
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean when, when I first saw that too, I was thinking, you know, with my design marketing kind of hat on and you know, if you recall back in the day, if you were to go and design websites, we would usually have like a mobile one and then you would have one that's for desktop and. And then afterwards we had these like responsive websites and now I think it'll be interesting. I don't know how people are going to change.
Although this probably isn't going to be the prevalent type of, you know, device out there, but it certainly makes it for a much different experience. If I was going to try to have the space to, and for content and images and other things, like you have the small form factor and then when you expand out you could have some sort of different type of interaction. So yeah, when you need a phone you, you have a, acts like a phone. When you need more space, you can open it. And so yeah, I mean I, it isn't just like an iPhone with a weird hinge.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: So yeah. And yeah, it just seems like a more unified experience.
Perhaps the hinge.
Before we talk about software, we can talk about that.
There was, I'd have to re watch the event again.
There was a lot of.
It's very similar to Samsung, you know, they're like, here's a X ray of the phone, and this is what the hinge looks like. And here are all the different gaskets. And I don't know if they use the word gaskets, but, you know, all these pieces to make it robust, that's one thing I couldn't speak to you. When I think of a folding device with the phone, I think, how many folds do you get out of it before it breaks? I know a lot of people who've bought those vertical folding phones, and they've all just stopped working. Half the screen, just one day. It's just like.
And so it seems like their lifespan is relatively limited.
I don't know how this will hold up. I guess we'll have to see. It sounds like they were able, with the hinge and the way the display was designed to reduce the feeling that there was like a crease in the middle. Like, I think it's still there. People who tried it, like, what I've read from tech journalists is that you can still feel it, but I think because they use that kind of matte finish display, that nano texture, whatever they call it, it kind of hides that a lot better. Between that and the software.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Just the engineering of it. I also thought that was one thing that was kind of cool, too, is it lets you partially fold the phone and then you could have a stand. You could stand it up on a surface and so you could watch something. So, like, it is kind of cool that way. I mean, I think that might be useful. Like, let's say if you're doing, like, FaceTime calls or taking group photos or watching videos or recording yourself without needing a stand. So, you know, I think this is where you're kind of getting into an important distinction.
You know, there's a difference between inventing a foldable phone but then finding good reasons for people to actually use one.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: And I think that they were smart. I was kind of worried that the phone.
So when I've seen again, they've changed a lot. But when these phones first came out, they were almost like kind of two phones glued together. And you and I had speculated in the past that maybe this would be like two. Two iPhone airs glued together, which it, like, kind of looks like, to be honest. It has that design language, but they used a wider aspect ratio for both the front display.
For the. For the front display. So it's more of like a passport size. I think they even referred to that. And I think that that probably required a lot more engineering on the Software side because you know, you have to then resize the operating system to kind of be more iPad like but still work like a phone. But I think that was the right decision because in early days of these folding devices you had from a productivity standpoint it was very difficult because it was like a very narrow, useless display. And then it opened up into something completely different where this seems like again, a better transition.
I don't have too much to say about the camera. You know, the processor is supposed to be better.
A 20 pro, it's a pro phone essentially.
What did you think about the changes to the operating system and the software?
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think in terms of the software like again, this is where they've been working on it behind the scenes and this is I guess what we're going to be expecting. But I like the interactions. I think like you mentioned like even the transitions and so on.
So yeah, it'll be interesting. But I mean I go back to like, you know, you look at this, this whole thing and it was funny like how Samsung responded to this. You know, they came out with the Galaxy F back in 2019, so it's been seven years and basically their response to this is that, you know, welcome to the foldable world. And they're pretty effective at, you know, doing the trolling. But I mean if you look at it, Apple is always like from an innovation standpoint, they're always late.
You know, this isn't exactly new behavior for Apple. You know, they have a long history of entering categories after other companies. So like they didn't invent the MP3 player or the smart smartphone or the tablet or the smartwatch or even wireless earbuds. But in several of those cases, you know, the. Apple became one of the companies that was closely associated with that category.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Yeah, but yeah, and you make a good point. Like they often take a step back to see what works and what doesn't. But it, but they're also like, they may not be first to a category but sometimes they totally change it. Like I mean, well, they were one of the pioneers of desktop computing.
I would say they probably. I mean was there somebody who did an all in one desktop computer before Apple? I don't think so.
So that's an example of where they're kind of a leader and still maintain that you're right about MP3 players, but I feel the ipod is so different from other MP3 players that came out before it that it's almost a new category. Right.
So they're late to a category, but then Also almost redefine it. So, and I'm, I guess I'm trying to give credit to their competitors where they've defined a category, but then often that category is dramatically changed once Apple enters the fray. So there's, there's still a lot of innov that occurs when they enter.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, again, like if you look at it and this is where I think Apple, their ecosystem factor, you know, it, it's a huge difference. Like you, you know, you talked about like the iOS, but somehow, I don't know, magically, if you open up your AirPods, they work.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Your Apple watch, somehow it like, you know, if I'm doing a workout, it's tracking it. Also on my phone, the icloud, you know, switching between all of these devices, your MacBook or what have you. And I could see this is where like, if you had a Samsung device, you might have some compromises that you have to make. But you know, Apple, they can tell people that you don't have to leave our ecosystem to get a foldable anymore.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, they're probably worried that people might leave their ecosystem, especially as their ecosystem kind of breaks down and they're forced to, mostly by the European Union, but perhaps, you know, worldwide, to be more interoperable.
That might have added to the pressure to come up with a device in this category.
I was curious what you thought about the software like iOS. So they've reworked iOS and this is kind of interesting from a productivity standpoint to work with this foldable device.
So you unfold it and you know, the dock on the iPhone has historically been on the bottom.
It's on the bottom for the iPad too.
But for this folding display, it's on the right whether you're in the single display mode or in the full, you know, unfolded landscape mode. And it, it started to get me thinking about just the software in general. So for many years I had the dock on the left hand side of the screen on the Mac. I don't anymore because I have so many apps in the dock that it starts to look too small and too squished. But I was thinking about the iPad. Why, why, why doesn't the iPad have similar changes to iOS? The ability to say, move the dock or the right like you would on Mac os. It's a much larger canvas than a folding phone.
You know, the idea that all the control. So it's interesting to me that like, there's just a lot of innovation in the software on this device that you don't see on a larger iOS like device like the iPad. Right. So like for instance, on the side, you know, on the iPhone, on the top right, you have, in the corner, you have. Because it's a portrait device, you have like if it's connected to the Internet or what signal what the battery percentage is. And then if you swipe down from the top right, you get this kind of control center that has these kind of jelly buttons and controls that you can customize where in this device they've actually removed that from the top right. At least in the, I think on both displays. So it's like this kind of like little shortcut button that lives below this front facing camera. And I'm thinking like, why is it that the iPad has to work like the phone and the duo gets its own interface.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe this is part of it. Right? Like now, like, I mean, you bring up a good point. Like the interface, it reacts depending on what you're doing with the phone. If you fold it, if you rotate it, if you flip it around, you know, it moves from the outside screen to the inside. I mean the iOS is supposed to reorganize itself around the hardware.
And so, you know, and maybe this is the, one of the most important parts now that Apple is entering into the foldable market.
You know, being able to go and it's not just enough to go and have a screen that bends you. The apps have to know what to do with that extra space.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's. It is really interesting.
It just made me think, I mean, again, I don't have any issues with the way the iPad works. It just made me think like with some of these innovations in terms of layout, structure, reorganization, other than being able to fold. The iPad is also, is not a portrait. It's actually positioned as a landscape device because they moved the front facing camera for doing video conferencing to the landscape.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: So it's designed now to be a landscape device. So why, why can't I have the dock on the right or the left? You know what I mean? Like so just little things that I think about.
And it's interesting how changes to software will come to one platform but not another. And I'm wondering if some of these things will kind of trickle down to the iPad, but.
Or at least make it an option.
Is there anything else you wanted to say about the Duo? I don't have too much to say about battery life or camera. I feel like these are not really central to this device. It's really more the software experience and kind of Some of the hardware decisions.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, if I had the money, maybe I would do something like this, but I don't know. Otherwise I think it's good. Who knows, it'll probably be a new status symbol for certain people that want to go and flash around their three thousand dollar phone.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: Yes, rob me, status symbol.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
Although I guess one other thing that they did too was they brought in the, the touch ID in there too.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Well, that did surprise me. I'm not a huge fan of face ID personally. I find it to be. I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not worried that it's a privacy breach because as I understand it, all that stuff is done on device, but I do find face ID to be a little bit more cumbersome.
I've always preferred the fingerprint idea that you just reach over and touch it. I much prefer to unlock things that way.
It's interesting that they were able to put an under screen video conferencing camera that like appears when you need it. That's incredible.
But they couldn't put face ID under it probably because of all the depth sensing cameras and all the stuff. So they, they went to doing, excuse me, touch ID on the side. I also wondered if it was a cost issue. I have no idea. I don't know what the component cost of face ID would be. I would assume that a fingerprint reader would be cheaper, but maybe it was purely an ergonomic decision.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Yeah, who knows?
[00:20:00] Speaker A: Again, again we don't know and these are just speculations I have. I was just a little bit surprised by that.
But I am a little bit envious of my, my friends who have iPad airs versus a pro because they unlock it with touch ID and it just looks so much easier.
You don't actually have to lift it up and look at it. You can do it from a different angle and stuff. Right. So I kind of like to see touch ID come back, but that's what the iPhone duo is.
I'm yet to be convinced that this is the all in one productivity device that replaces your tablet and your phone and your laptop.
I'm kind of curious like who this is for.
From an educator standpoint, I don't think this is really useful.
It seems more like a content.
It'd be a great travel device if you couldn't take a lot of stuff with you.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Maybe they should lean into that whole passport thing.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. We had new pro phones. Is there anything notable to say there other than that they got a spec Bump and better battery life.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: I don't know, it seems like it's either, you could call it either boring or practical, but yeah, they look pretty familiar. It's not dramatic redesign.
The biggest thing is the camera Change is a 48 pixel. And I guess the other big thing that I and they were showing, you know, comparing the, the duo to this Pro phone, but it was the camera aperture controls and how much light can enter into the lens and how that influences the depth of the field.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: Yeah. There's also quite a bit of time dedicated to the new Siri AI, particularly how much is done on device.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: By these new processors. And I think they're really trying to lean into the privacy aspect.
You and I did a presentation some time ago where we thought that all of the models, these big models, the power usage, the water usage, this stuff would kind of become moot because it's just not really a great business case. It doesn't make any money.
So these things are going to have to be scaled back or they'll be almost as good running on device.
And I think you're starting to see that already. I mean, I've been playing with these small language models on my computer for simple stuff. It's interesting. And these mobile devices are so good now that they can offload a lot of these things on device.
I think you're going to see more and more of that because I think people are concerned about where their data is going to train these models.
Interesting.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: On a side note, I don't know if you saw, but OpenAI has bought thousands of Mac Minis and Mac Studios just to go and, you know, maybe to work on their agents or whatever. But yeah, I mean, I, I do like this how the, the AI is on device for these phones.
You know, it has been a strange position during this AI boom. Like, you know, when people are thinking of the leading AI companies, Apple hasn't really been necessarily the first that comes to mind. You have like OpenAI or Google, anthropic Microsoft that are competing aggressively. But this is where Apple's advantage is different. It already owns the device in hundreds of millions of people's pockets. And those, those devices, they have something really incredibly valuable for an AI assistant.
It has context, your messages, your calendar, your photos, your contacts, location history, your reminders and you know, the, the things are on your screen. And this could be genuinely a really useful personal assistant, but it obviously could also create a privacy problem. And so if the AI system knows that much about you and what information is being processed and who can access it. How long is it stored? What happens if it goes wrong? And so this is where I think really Apple, it understands that concern about privacy and is becoming one of the most central parts of its AI pitch. So the, the new Siri is designed to use that personal context.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: What else do we have?
We have a new Apple Watch.
So the apple watch series 12.
Again, I think it's the same design, upgraded internals.
Apparently it has a faster heart rate sensor.
Can do it every five seconds.
The claimed, this is from Engadget. It says the claimed battery life is the same as the series 11 at 24 hours, but it has faster fast charging. And there was already quite an improvement in fast charging last time. So 15 minutes gets you 12 hours of use, which is pretty impressive. Yeah, I think fast charging on these teeny tiny wearables is actually quite important.
What was interesting is that they had this like this audio intelligence thing that they talked about. So again I'm going to read from Engadget because they have a nice summary. So it says the biggest new capability Apple is touting this time around is called Audio Intelligence. This can pick up sounds in the environment and alert you to noises like alarms and crying infants, potentially making it valuable for folks with hearing impairments.
Feature can also transcribe the last. Transcribe the last 15 seconds of a conversation. And Siri can summarize your chat too. In addition to Shazam can constantly run in the background to help you identify whatever song is playing nearby.
So I mean the Shazam Function I use on my. I have a cheapo Apple watch search.
But this idea that it can detect particular sounds I thought was quite interesting.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Was there anything else about the Apple Watch that you found of note?
[00:26:01] Speaker B: No, I think this was maybe kind of the quieter part of their strategy in this announcement. And then I guess the other thing is the AirPods. So it was, you know, they're just bringing more. Improved active noise cancellation to its. The open ear AirPod design.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And I've never tried the ANC on the standard AirPods. I have AirPods Pro which have a silicone seal. So they work really well.
But yeah, I mean that was it. I thought it was a. I mean really the, the star of the show or that that the focus was the. For the phones, particularly the duo, because it's. They haven't come out with a new form factor in a long time.
What do you think the biggest takeaway is for people who listen to us?
[00:26:49] Speaker B: I guess. Takeaway. Well that was, that's A good point.
I still. I'm of the belief. I mean, I was a little bit disappointed, but maybe I'm okay with it too. But, like, I was thinking that they're gonna. There was gonna be a new iPhone. Air the second one. They were speculating on that. And one thing that I did find that's interesting is if you look at the trade in values, they are taking a big hit on a lot of the other.
The phones. And so, I mean, I guess on one side I'm disappointed, but on the other side, I still have the latest error phone. And so. And it's good enough for me in terms of what I need to get done.
And I'm all about simplicity and keeping things, you know, that work for my workflow.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
Well, is there anything else that we should talk about before we end for today?
[00:27:47] Speaker B: I think we're good.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: That was faster than I thought.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: Yeah. We're coming up to our episode 100 pretty soon, so.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: Yes, that's true.
So we'll have to have some sort of milestone, I think, next time.
Every time we have an Apple event that kind of sucks the.
The stuff out of the room. So I think next time we're going to return to productivity and some details.
Yeah.
Okay. Well, we'll have to think of something to do to celebrate our 100th episode. Everybody send us $100. No, I'm just joking. That would be.
That would be absurd. But, yeah, well, we'll do something to talk about. Maybe a reflection on the time so far.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: All right. It's always a pleasure.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: Likewise. Take care.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: I think I actually.
You stopped.
